So close you can almost smell it. HVD SpectreDiver is almost ready (SELLITA SW210-1 Manual Wind 40mm case/14mm height/48mm L2L/20mm lugs)

Featured Image © Joshua Clare-Flagg, WIAA​

[5min read time]

In addition to the fact that the crown can be a beautiful design element of a watch, it is the link between the inside of a watch, i.e. the movement, and the outside world. It basically has two functions for mechanical watches; Set the time / date / day and manually wind the movement. In addition to the case back and glass, the crown is also one of the critical points where water can enter. In fact, it is often the point at which this happens, because only the crown is used regularly and is therefore subject to more mechanical wear and tear than the other openings. Tinkerers and watch manufacturers have come up with a number of solutions to provide a secure seal of the crown. Two of them have prevailed; the screw-down crown, and the push/pull crown. What are the differences and which crown is the right one or you?

First of all, consider that both a screw-down and push/pull crown is not guaranteed waterproof when set to the open position. "Open" means that it is in the position where the time / date / day can be set. If you forget to screw down or push in the crown, water can enter.

Pull/push crown

A conventional crown can be moved freely and is sealed with O-rings. All manufacturers also lubricate the sealing rings with silicone oil or grease in order to minimize friction during use. Pull/push crowns seal a watch securely up to 200 meters and more - so they are not less waterproof than a screw-down crown. In contrary, the thread does not wear out, meaning that a Pull/push crown, in theory will stay waterproof longer than a Screw-down crown.

Advantages and disadvantages of a Push/pull crown:

+ is waterproof in the pushed-in crown position (Formex Watches are periodically tested with crown in the pulled position to the full depth)

+ can be manually wound at any time in the pushed-in crown position

+ Time / day / date can be set with just one pull

- if you forget to push the crown in before using in water, water can enter the movement

- If the crown gets tangled under water and pops out, water enters the movement

Screw-down crown
The concept of the screw-down crown was not invented by Rolex, but was first used by Rolex in 1926 in an Oyster case. Hans Wilsdorf, the Rolex owner, actually bought the idea from the two inventors Georges Peret and Paul Perregaux. On October 18, 1926, the screw-down crown was legally protected by Rolex. To date, the concept is the most widespread crown protection against water. The principle is simple: the tube of the watch ends in a screw thread, the counterpart of which is locatedon the inside of the crown. Here too, O-rings are used for sealing, with only one difference. In the screwed state, one of the rings is pressed against the tube. With diving watches, this serves an essential function - which hardly anyone is aware of and which has nothing to do with water resistance: a screw-down crown cannot be operated accidentally. Underwater, correct observance of decompression and diving times is essential for survival. A wrong time indication could be fatal. For a watch that is not used for professional diving with an oxygen bottle, however, a screw-down crown could be regarded as overkill. In addition to that, some owners tend to exaggerate a little when screwing down the crown and do so with more torque than is required, which can damage the seals and the thread.

Advantages and disadvantages of a screw-down crown:

+ is waterproof when in the screwed-down position

+ cannot be operated accidentally

- The crown must be unscrewed each time for manual winding or to adjust time / date / day

- if you forget to screw-down the crown before using water, water can enter the movement

Early screw-down design by Perregaux and Perret


Seen here is the patent for the early screw-down design by Perregaux and Perret. The part marked 16 is the seal, located on the outside of the case. Image © David Boettcher​


“For all our watch models, except our diver timepieces, we use a Push/pull crown with multiple seals through O-rings. This ensures the greatest possible safety, reliability and convenience when operating. I personally take them down to depths of 30m+ and we even periodically test the waterproofness with the crown in the pulled-out position. However, it is still advised to push your crown all the way in before jumping in the water after changing time, date or day. It also doesn’t hurt to bring your watch to your local watchmaker every year to ensure its waterproofness. It only takes a few minutes and gives you piece of mind".
Raphael Granito, CEO Formex Watch SA



I’m stupid. You might be stupid too. The moron who was working the stump grinder for our tree removal job the other day and shredded right through a plainly visible sprinkler head and didn’t even realize it? Utter and complete broth-brain. Sometimes our gray matter just goes off the boil.

And if you’re stupid and forget to push the crown back in on your watch, then the water resistance is almost certainly zero. It’s not sealed. You have a leak. There is, in fact, a hole in your bucket dear Liza. More than a few times in my life I’ve had a watch on my wrist for an extended period of time and then, out of nowhere, I have noticed that the crown wasn’t “in.” How does this happen? I don’t know! I’m stupid! But if that’s the case when you hit the water, the water rushes in, and, blammo. Your watch is a paperweight. Also, pulling that crown out and pushing it in hundreds of times over the life of a cheap watch will almost certainly wear down those pieces parts, and make it more susceptible to failure/not securing correctly when you have pushed it in. And thus, watchmakers say: “Yeah, don’t swim with the 30m stuff. Safer for everyone.”



Christopher Ward’s C65 Trident. 150m water resistant. No screw down crown.

Why I Still (foolishly) Rationalize 200m for Swimming​

I personally don’t wear anything in the water with a resistance of less than 200m, because that makes me the most comfortable and those are usually the watches with screw down crowns. No screw down crown = a (small) risk of forgetting to seal the watch by securing the crown. It is one extra step to prevent me from being stupid. If I’m winding a watch or setting the time or date, I need to screw the crown in to be “done” with that process. That’s how I view it. THAT SAID I’ve done plenty of swimming and dancing in the rain with 100m rated watches and I haven’t had any trouble at all. Yet.

More Questions. More Rationalizing.​

So why have an over-engineered dive watch that’s 100m, 200m or 300m water resistant? Let’s explore that. Why have a car that can go 160 mph? Why have a pair of fancy heritage work boots when you sit at a desk all day? Why would you want a vacuum cleaner strong enough to pick up a bowling ball? Or an amplifier that goes to 11? Because a lot of it is marketing. Or status. Or both. But, and perhaps this is a stretch, many products that are over engineered for tasks you’ll never perform seem to also feel, work, and let’s be honest, look better in day to day operation compared to the cheaper, less capable competition.
 
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Yes it does but it also makes me question the 200m wr. Also not a fan of those squared off hands. Could have really been great for me,
now i see the hands...well yeah push pull crown folks claim WR from bushings...

i learned about the SELLITA 210 hand wind...
 
sold 57 MOONSTONE
12 ONYX
26 EMERALD

MOONSTONE AHEAD MORE THAN BOTH OTHER COLORS COMBINED.

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208580737_262648648965242_4177694180102056087_n.jpg
196505153_248325873730853_5572394429791922547_n.jpg


I think they all look good in their own right. The one that shows the scratched/distressed vintage old look best is the ONYX IMO. It gives the appearance the finish is worn down to the brass plate of the dial and that is very cool looking with the gold hour markers.

cedf15cd27b6ae420fcdec5f1410251a_original.jpg
 
I think they all look good in their own right. The one that shows the scratched/distressed vintage old look best is the ONYX IMO. It gives the appearance the finish is worn down to the brass plate of the dial and that is very cool looking with the gold hour markers.
But why the squared off hands? nothing vintage about those is there?
 
I actually appreciate the modern spin mix on vintage with things like that. I think enough brands try to mirror things to a fault these days.
Well I am more for function and a nice point out to the track works better for time reading. Like a pilot watch of even a field watch anyway they could have at least added a hypodermic needle the the end. Then again I am no watch designer and I expect they will sell out soon.

Blancpain-Fifty-Fathoms-Bathyscaphe-Day-Date-70s.jpg
 
It all depends on the individual. My eyes can pick up either design with the needle nose or the red pointer. The weak point on the HVE is no lume dot below or some point on the sweep hand. In the pitch dark it has to tick over the lumed marker to see the spot it is on at a glance. Even the CW65 sweep hand painted the tip white with lume.
 
WE ARE FUNDED!​
Hey you!
We are so happy to announce that our campaign has been successfully funded!

Thank you for making this campaign possible. We are really humbled by all your support for this little campaign of ours.

Some of you may have known me from my previous campaigns on Kickstarter for RZE Watches and another brand before. Rest assured we will be delivering the same great quality and service to you. We will begin working on organizing the production ASAP so we can make sure we get the watches to you in the shortest time possible!

Meanwhile, we would appreciate it so much if you could help us to share this campaign with your friends and family. We are always open to your suggestions to make the campaign better.

To spice things up, we've decided to provide a new color variant for the SpectreDiver!
We initially set the new color variant as a stretch goal, but because we were so overwhelmed by the outpouring of your support, we'd like to show our gratitude by releasing this new color variant earlier.

You can now select this Azurite Variant (Ref. 323) as an add-on or even switch your current reward choice. Limited early bird quantity for this piece available now.

We've also heard your feedback on the end links, in which we are in talks with our suppliers to switch them over to female end links. So do stay with us, we will be keeping everyone posted on any updates as soon as we get them.
Click here to select the Azurite Variant now!
Keep those comments coming! We are always listening to all your feedback and comments so we can make this the watch for you.
If you haven't already, head on over to our campaign page and check us out before the campaign ends!
We hope you can help us share the campaign with your network so we can reach the stretch goals and bring more value to you.
Let's make this campaign a success together!

With love,
T. V.
 
We are going to make it 12.7mm for the final production. I won’t be able to share the technical drawing because it’s confidential. We are able to slim it further than the prototype because we slim down the case back further. :) The total thickness should be 12.7mm for the final production model. Will update the case thickness to 10.2mm instead of 10mm. :)

HVD team, Plexiglass is strong but not resistant to scuffs and scratches like sapphire.

We are not able to provide the box sapphire crystal for the watch because of the minimum order quantity. Our design does not use off the shelf components and everything is custom made. Hence we won't be able to make small quantity of the sapphire crystal unfortunately :(

ONYX reduced from 100 piece to 50 on the EB.
 
Really not that bad.
i like it ... my little man still holstered but that is always a mystery...moonstone my eye candy fave... not sure i understand the scratching technique and it's value added...stay tuned
 

Featured Image © Joshua Clare-Flagg, WIAA​

[5min read time]

In addition to the fact that the crown can be a beautiful design element of a watch, it is the link between the inside of a watch, i.e. the movement, and the outside world. It basically has two functions for mechanical watches; Set the time / date / day and manually wind the movement. In addition to the case back and glass, the crown is also one of the critical points where water can enter. In fact, it is often the point at which this happens, because only the crown is used regularly and is therefore subject to more mechanical wear and tear than the other openings. Tinkerers and watch manufacturers have come up with a number of solutions to provide a secure seal of the crown. Two of them have prevailed; the screw-down crown, and the push/pull crown. What are the differences and which crown is the right one or you?

First of all, consider that both a screw-down and push/pull crown is not guaranteed waterproof when set to the open position. "Open" means that it is in the position where the time / date / day can be set. If you forget to screw down or push in the crown, water can enter.

Pull/push crown

A conventional crown can be moved freely and is sealed with O-rings. All manufacturers also lubricate the sealing rings with silicone oil or grease in order to minimize friction during use. Pull/push crowns seal a watch securely up to 200 meters and more - so they are not less waterproof than a screw-down crown. In contrary, the thread does not wear out, meaning that a Pull/push crown, in theory will stay waterproof longer than a Screw-down crown.

Advantages and disadvantages of a Push/pull crown:

+ is waterproof in the pushed-in crown position (Formex Watches are periodically tested with crown in the pulled position to the full depth)

+ can be manually wound at any time in the pushed-in crown position

+ Time / day / date can be set with just one pull

- if you forget to push the crown in before using in water, water can enter the movement

- If the crown gets tangled under water and pops out, water enters the movement

Screw-down crown
The concept of the screw-down crown was not invented by Rolex, but was first used by Rolex in 1926 in an Oyster case. Hans Wilsdorf, the Rolex owner, actually bought the idea from the two inventors Georges Peret and Paul Perregaux. On October 18, 1926, the screw-down crown was legally protected by Rolex. To date, the concept is the most widespread crown protection against water. The principle is simple: the tube of the watch ends in a screw thread, the counterpart of which is locatedon the inside of the crown. Here too, O-rings are used for sealing, with only one difference. In the screwed state, one of the rings is pressed against the tube. With diving watches, this serves an essential function - which hardly anyone is aware of and which has nothing to do with water resistance: a screw-down crown cannot be operated accidentally. Underwater, correct observance of decompression and diving times is essential for survival. A wrong time indication could be fatal. For a watch that is not used for professional diving with an oxygen bottle, however, a screw-down crown could be regarded as overkill. In addition to that, some owners tend to exaggerate a little when screwing down the crown and do so with more torque than is required, which can damage the seals and the thread.

Advantages and disadvantages of a screw-down crown:

+ is waterproof when in the screwed-down position

+ cannot be operated accidentally

- The crown must be unscrewed each time for manual winding or to adjust time / date / day

- if you forget to screw-down the crown before using water, water can enter the movement

Early screw-down design by Perregaux and Perret


Seen here is the patent for the early screw-down design by Perregaux and Perret. The part marked 16 is the seal, located on the outside of the case. Image © David Boettcher​






I’m stupid. You might be stupid too. The moron who was working the stump grinder for our tree removal job the other day and shredded right through a plainly visible sprinkler head and didn’t even realize it? Utter and complete broth-brain. Sometimes our gray matter just goes off the boil.

And if you’re stupid and forget to push the crown back in on your watch, then the water resistance is almost certainly zero. It’s not sealed. You have a leak. There is, in fact, a hole in your bucket dear Liza. More than a few times in my life I’ve had a watch on my wrist for an extended period of time and then, out of nowhere, I have noticed that the crown wasn’t “in.” How does this happen? I don’t know! I’m stupid! But if that’s the case when you hit the water, the water rushes in, and, blammo. Your watch is a paperweight. Also, pulling that crown out and pushing it in hundreds of times over the life of a cheap watch will almost certainly wear down those pieces parts, and make it more susceptible to failure/not securing correctly when you have pushed it in. And thus, watchmakers say: “Yeah, don’t swim with the 30m stuff. Safer for everyone.”



Christopher Ward’s C65 Trident. 150m water resistant. No screw down crown.

Why I Still (foolishly) Rationalize 200m for Swimming​

I personally don’t wear anything in the water with a resistance of less than 200m, because that makes me the most comfortable and those are usually the watches with screw down crowns. No screw down crown = a (small) risk of forgetting to seal the watch by securing the crown. It is one extra step to prevent me from being stupid. If I’m winding a watch or setting the time or date, I need to screw the crown in to be “done” with that process. That’s how I view it. THAT SAID I’ve done plenty of swimming and dancing in the rain with 100m rated watches and I haven’t had any trouble at all. Yet.

More Questions. More Rationalizing.​

So why have an over-engineered dive watch that’s 100m, 200m or 300m water resistant? Let’s explore that. Why have a car that can go 160 mph? Why have a pair of fancy heritage work boots when you sit at a desk all day? Why would you want a vacuum cleaner strong enough to pick up a bowling ball? Or an amplifier that goes to 11? Because a lot of it is marketing. Or status. Or both. But, and perhaps this is a stretch, many products that are over engineered for tasks you’ll never perform seem to also feel, work, and let’s be honest, look better in day to day operation compared to the cheaper, less capable competition.
By Reagan Cook and Ryan Torres

April 5th, 2020

Almost all men's wristwatches claim some level of water resistance rating on the caseback - but what do these numbers actually mean? While 30 or 50 meters of water resistance may seem more than sufficient for a quick swim in the pool, in reality, they offer limited resistance beyond the occasional spray.
For a functionally waterproof watch (covering 99% of real-world use cases) you're going to need, at minimum, a watch rated to 100 meters (328ft) of water resistance - in the watch industry this rating is often abbreviated to 10 ATM (atmospheres) or 10 Bar.
Below is a quick summary of ATM ratings and what they mean:
1 ATM - Essentially no water resistance, stay away.
3 ATM - Covers splashes, not steam or submersion.
5 ATM - Handles quick submersion and showering.
10 ATM - Covers swimming and submersion.
10 ATM + Lock Crown - Functionally waterproof.
20 ATM - Waterproof to limits of the deep diving.
30 ATM - Waterproof at depths of oxygen toxicity.
100 ATM - Pretty much just showing off.
Leaks Like a Sieve: 1 ATM & 3 ATM Watches

The ATM scale of water resistance in watches starts with 1 ATM as a base resistance - though this rating is uncommon, as it is only found on the lowest quality watches and is rarely advertised or printed on the caseback. If you're shopping waterproof watches for men with a budget over $50, the vast majority of options you're going to encounter are watches with 3 ATM resistance.
Chinese-made fashion watches from brands like Daniel Wellington, MVMT, and Vincero are typically 3 ATM - and like many other aspects of these watches, there's a lot to be desired when it comes to in-water resistance. While a 3 ATM (30 meter) rating sounds pretty substantial, it actually only indicates that the watch can withstand light splashes and hand washing. Anything beyond this runs the risk of breaching and ruining the watch.



"A watch with a 3ATM rating is usually an indication of poor build quality. Since those watches are inevitably going to flood, it means that the total cost of replacement is lower than the upgrade to 5ATM - which is typically only a few dollars."
- Reagan Cook, Vaer Co-Founder

Basic Accident Coverage: 5ATM Watches
In order to actually be comfortable with limited water and steam exposure such as showering or an accidental fall in the pool, a minimum of 5 ATM (50 meter) rating is required. Many non-sport luxury watches are rated at 5 ATM.

While a 3 ATM rating is generally a signifier of cheaper components, a rating of 5 ATM (in non-outdoor watches) is a good marker of quality. Since water resistance is achieved by close-fitting components, higher ATM ratings also indicate more precise machining, better gaskets and sealants, and thicker case walls and glass.

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While water resistance for swimming and diving is important, protection from rain and steam is critical. Vaer watches cover both, providing a 10ATM rating and a locking crown.

Casual Submersions: 10ATM Watches
One of the biggest things to keep in mind when shopping for watches is that it's ONLY at 10ATM that the question of water resistant vs. waterproof starts to become negligible. 10ATM is the base requirement for extended water submersion and it should be the minimum specification to seek out when purchasing a watch that will be used in the outdoors.
However, just because a watch is rated to 10 ATM doesn't mean it can't fail in the water. The 100 meter rating is based on static pressure in a controlled environment, and for this reason it is very possible for a 10 ATM watch to flood when used in the real world. This type of failure typically occurs at the crown - either from user error (i.e. forgetting to push the crown back in fully after changing the time), a manufacturing defect, or accidental impact underwater the knocks the crown out of place.
Due to the ever-present risk of crown failure, very few watches, even those marketed as 10ATM will include a warranty covering water-related damage.



"Our goal in founding Vaer was to build a watch that you could take from the ocean to the office. While we were familiar with options like a Casio waterproof watch, there weren't many non-plastic models available for under $200. We quickly realized that the complexities of producing a locking screwdown crown was a big reason why. Our ability to integrate this rare feature into our watches, was a big contributor to our early success, and it remains something that really sets our watches apart today."
- Ryan Torres, Vaer Co-Founder


Essentially Waterproof: 10 ATM with Locking Crown

In order to have a watch that you can repeatedly take in the water without worrying about it ever flooding, you're going to want a screwdown crown. Almost all watches at 20ATM and above have this feature, and it's generally associated with luxury divers. At the 10 ATM level, screwdown crowns are much less common, especially on design-oriented minimalist watches.
At Vaer every watch we make comes with a locking screwdown crown to ensure an airtight seal at the most vulnerable point on the case.
Our confidence in guaranteeing our watches are waterproof vs. water resistant comes from personal experience. Vaer is headquartered half-a-mile from the Pacific ocean, and as founders we try to get in the water 4-6 times every week. Our watches have endured hundreds of hours of pounding shorebreak, and prolonged salt-water exposure - and thanks to the screwdown crown they've always kept ticking.
While we openly admit that that our 10 ATM watches will flood at extreme depths (likely at a depth of around 120 feet), this type of exposure is so rare that we're always willing to replace the watch of an owner that tries to pull it off (thus far, it's never happened).

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All Vaer watches are sold with a guaranteed waterproof warranty. We're able to make this promise thanks to years of wear, and hundreds of hours in extreme ocean use.


A Cool Diving Accessory: 20 ATM Watches

Beyond 10 ATM, water resistance ratings start to become more about bragging rights (and price tags) than real world functionality. The Vaer D5 and D7 dive watches are rated to 20 ATM, and this is a common mark for most modern divers, as it allows you to take the watch to the limits of recreational diving at 60 meters (200 feet).
Here at Vaer, we believe that 20 ATM is a sweet spot for dive watches because it allows for great functionality, while maintaining desirable aesthetics like a slim, sub-12mm case thickness, and an exhibition caseback.
If you own a Rolex Submariner or Omega Seamaster, and scoff at the idea of trusting a measily 20 ATM watch, keep in mind that in order to judge the difference in the ocean, you would need a diving rig with hypoxic breathing gas in order to avoid the oxygen toxicity induced by such an extreme depth.
The Edge of Reason: 30 ATM Watches
As mentioned above, there are some pretty cool watches that are rated to 30 ATM. But generally speaking, this designation is more about technical bragging rights than functional value.
While you might assume that 30 ATM watches are inherently better than 20 ATM watches, it's important to keep in mind that very few "serious divers" are ever going to rely on a dive watch as their primary diving tool. A modern dive computer is able to track and record depth and dive times over multiple dives, and then use that data to let the diver know when they need to end their dives and how quickly to rise. This means that even an average, modern dive computer is far superior for diving compared to the best dive watch.
Despite this, many people still wear their dive watches in addition to a dive computer while diving - mostly because it's cool to see a technical tool perform in its natural environment.

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Vaer Dive Watches are rated to 20ATM with a locking crown - this rating provides deep diving functionality, while maintaining a slim case, and a sapphire exhibition caseback.

Big Numbers Are Cool: Over 100 ATM Watches
If 30 ATM watches are pushing the limits of practicality, then 100 ATM is definitely going a bit overboard. While we think it's awesome that brands like Rolex are pushing the outer limits of what's possible in terms of water resistance ratings (the 2012 Rolex Deepsea offers a cool 390 ATM) there's a point where the numbers start to lose their relevance.
Unless you have a wrist like the Hulk, wearing a 100 ATM watch is going to be heavy, and uncomfortable - and generally a pretty poor choice for active water sports like swimming, fishing, surfing and kayaking.
Choosing The Best Waterproof Watch for YOU
The fact that you're reading this article is good indication that you've placed a priority on water resistance for your next watch purchase.
That's a good decision.
Flooding and water damage is the most common causes of failure in wristwatches and it is easily avoided. Just keep the following suggestions in mind:
1. Look for at least a 10 ATM resistance rating.
2. Ensure that the watch has a locking crown.
3. Consider sizing, smaller = more comfortable.
4. Ensure the watch includes water-friendly straps.
5. Confirm the brand has a waterproof warranty.
We hope you enjoyed reading the article, and learned a thing or two about the strange realities of water resistance in watches.
 
This is coming down to the wire.......final hours....... :hmm:

count down from 23 hours now
hand wind diver this is # 1 SW210 ( hint it's a unicorn )

raised plexi crystal lighter weight poly watch on deck...not a problem for me

scratch dial... moonstone i like...green a hotty

no screw down crown...not planning on actual NACLH20 immersion...it is walter mitty meets jaques cousteau diving

old radium... i prefer C3 ...X1

never a fanboy of old radium yet as i gaze in to my box i have more than a few old radium... how did i get here ?
 
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