• You may experiece a service interruption April 27th, as we update our servers. The update is scheduled for: Start Date: Saturday, April 27th at 01:00 AM EST End Date: Saturday, April 27th at 09:00 AM EST. Thank you for your patience.

The Truth About In-House Movements

roadwarrior

Grand Tyme Master
Founding Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
59,321
AGF-l7-Z0S_ZAyDeQuQzjoJIhGccCTHnv4AZ4KJV6g=s48-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no


Watchfinder & Co.
Published on Jul 12, 2019

The in-house movement seems to be the be-all and end-all of modern watchmaking. If you’re a watchmaker and you don’t got an in-house movement, you’re going to struggle. Some of the biggest brands in the world, who up until recently have made do with tickers of the bought-in variety, have had to invest huge sums into the design and development of their own movements to cater for the demands of the watch-buying public. And that’s because the in-house movement is understood to have been a staple of the watchmaking of old—the truth, however, is a little different.

Featured Watches:
TAG Heuer Monaco CAW211P.FC6356
Patek Philippe 5170J
Longines Heritage L2.750.4.76.2

 
Thanks for posting this up, Mike.:hat:
 
Not a bad video but should probably come with an asterisk noting that it involves a very narrow focus admittedly common among WIS - specifically, there's plenty of in-house movements IF he would have directed his gaze outside Switzerland.

Even in Switzerland Rolex's movements are about as in-house as it gets as they're one of the few making their own hairsprings (Parachrom). But if one is also fixated on movement finishing Rolex doesn't play much in that ball park.

Start looking at Asia and the narrative comes unglued. There are several in-house with Seiko arguably being the poster child for taking "in-house" to absurd lengths. Not only with mechanical but they grow their own quartz crystals and provide their own electronics (matched in the case of the GS quartz).

The Chinese are, on average, not going to set the world on fire soon with hand finishing of movements but Credor / Micro-Artist Studio collaborates which Philippe Dufour and they're not going to take a back seat to anybody just because they're staring at the Alps through the window as opposed to Mt. Fuji. Then again the Eichi II goes for north of 50 grand so they're not exactly low-balling the Swiss either - especially in view of the Eichi being a simple 3-hand product.

There's certainly nothing wrong with watch hobbyists addressing everything from a Swiss perspective but it's rather sadly out of date. I was a Swisshead myself for quite a while - still am to an extent.

The video speaks very highly Philippe Dufour and well it should. The man himself has some interesting if not heretical things to say.

According to Philippe Dufour, many watchmakers today are lazy and don’t seem to encourage hard work. Very few of them go past their duties and original training and, apparently, are far too complacent. Philippe Dufour isn’t exactly thrilled with the low bar a lot of watchmakers today set for themselves and feels that many of them are far too comfortable with what they are doing. He suggests that I walk into any watchmaking facility in Switzerland and ask people “how long until you retire.” Perhaps a bit of tongue in cheek about it, Philippe claims many of them will know the answer to the day. “They are all waiting to retire.”

One of the reasons Dufour seems to enjoy traveling to Asia is because, according to him, their cultures hold very high respect for maturity and seniority. That he is an accomplished and older watchmaker automatically comes with the impression that he holds great amounts of knowledge – and I tend to agree.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/philippe-dufour-disappointed-todays-watchmakers/

But optimism is called for. Fine Swiss craftsmanship will live on. Dufour will see to it. But it might live on mostly in Japan.


Not complaining, mind you. My wife's last address was in Samut Prakan right down the Soi from Ronda and ETA's Thai facilities and she expects if not demands this sort of "don't forget Asia" nonsense from me.
 
This video shows how some craftsmanship of GS actually excels over Rolex in some ways.

In the early 1900s Kintaro Hattori wasn't satisfied with slow production due to importing parts so they made their own balance springs. Seiko has ten ticks per second compared to the Rolex. Seiko is doing 25% more work, but has seven more hours of power reserve over the Rolex.


Watchfinder & Co.
Published on Feb 1, 2019
There’s a lot of talk about the brand Grand Seiko. Some people will tell you it’s better than Rolex, others that the quality is unmatched, and others still that the value is astonishing. There’s a lot of reasons given why we should buy a Grand Seiko—here are three things you should know before you do.

Featured Watches:
Grand Seiko SBGM023J
Grand Seiko SBGA073J
Grand Seiko SBGV245


When entering the realm of watchmaking, the first thing a curious novice will discover is that watches don’t all tick. Some do, and those are mainly quartz, but many don’t—they sweep, in a fine, jittery motion, and these are mechanical movements. Quartz is accurate, our novice learns, but mechanical has soul, history and craftsmanship. But there’s another type of movement, one that glides smoothly without a tick or a jitter, as accurate as quartz but with all the hallmarks of mechanical—could it be the best of both worlds?

Featured Watches:
Grand Seiko Spring Drive Chrono SBGC001J

 
Clearly, if one goes beyond the initial video it is apparent that Watchfinder has a firm grasp on GS - more so than many.

But I must admit that every time I see that spring drive chrono my Seiko fanboy card is at risk - it just looks far too busy to me. The one time the Micro Artist studio got their hands on a GS they moved the power reserve to the back where it needs to be on that chrono. Regrettably the Micro-Artist GS 8-day is priced out of my range by at least an order of magnitude. I'd buy a second house first - not a very upscale house but a house nonetheless.


As an aside - I proceeded with the experiment with the Transocean. I was wondering if the dia-shield might justify the extra cost as I'm the world's worst with taking care of watches. Unsurprisingly there isn't the slightest hint of a "swirly" after nearly a month on the wrist but that's not the surprise. The surprise is that the lowly 6R15 running at a meager 21,600 with the second hand lurching like a drunk between lamp posts compared to a hi-beat is running 25 seconds fast after the same number of days.

This is clearly a fluke. There's no way that's normal for a Transocean but the luck of the draw is strong with this one. Seiko does have a reputation for under-promising and over-delivering but that's just plain stupid. They claim -15/+25 seconds per day but it's running within specs for a METAS chronometer. Even if the Transocean got a little extra regulating attention, which I doubt, it's still freakish. I don't know if it's one out of 100 or 1000 but whatever I'm clearly in need of buying a lotto ticket. Freakish outlier notwithstanding I'm definitely leaning toward the product not being overpriced.

Thanks for the follow up vids. And my Thai wife thanks you.
 
For the same price of course you are getting more watch in GS than Rolex, since a smaller portion of that money goes to pay the branding premium

Sent from my landline phone
 
Back
Top Bottom