Value' isn't everything - Don't get tripped up! Yes I said it .. the SKX kinda sucks!

roadwarrior

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Bruce Williams
Published on Aug 2, 2019

Yes I said it.... the SKX kinda sucks! 'Value' or 'Perceived value' isn't the driving force in each price segment's popular models.


A good cheap watch - Citizen Excalibur
Bruce Williams
Published on Aug 1, 2019

 
The simple moral to the story - don't pay "200 bucks" (what he said) for a Seiko SKX 007/009. I paid MUCH less than that and thus I have been extremely happy with my SKX 009 over the past few years.

Being a smart shopper is the best way to go when buying a watch or anything else in life. Hopefully nobody needs to hear that in a Youtube video to realize that it's true. :wink:
 
If someone is a member here all they have to do is hang out or even lurk and if they have patience and the will to learn they will become very educated very quick. The moral of the story is, do your homework and you won’t overpay for stuff.
 
I got great prices on my SKX007 & 013 but I'd happily pay $200 for these watches. I did replace the bracelet/strap but still, they're great watches.
 
The SKX occupies something of an unusual niche. It's a sort of "beater diver" in that it shares stuff with the 5 series with one huge exception: I believe the 200 meter designation is "real" - as opposed to simply being something printed on a dial to sell a watch.

200 bucks makes pretty good sense if you're talking about the same performance at depth as a Transocean. Most inexpensive look-alikes will be "dive style" watches rather than the real thing that's had corners cut elsewhere. Which I tend to believe our earnest 'Tuber has overlooked.

Or to borrow from the EDC web site:
The Seiko SKX is an ISO 6425-rated dive watch. It’s easy to gloss over this spec, but these few letters and handful of numbers play a significant role in the success of the SKX.

It's possible (I haven't spent much time checking it out) that the SKX is the lowest cost real dive watch out there. Probably not a valid comparison to place the price next to a product that contributes to the "hot tub of death" mythology that we sometimes observe.
 
I'm glad "most" was said because Deep Blue blows away the Seiko IMO for the money and no alignment issues as well, but Seiko wins on the lume department. I have both and for my money the DB homage excels over the Seiko. They also offer other Dive watches that are in the same price range. All using sapphire crystals on solid bracelets with scissor style clasp, ceramic bezels and some even offer Tritium. They all use the unbranded NH35, NH36 day/date movements, same as the Seiko 4R35 and 4R36 day/date.

newitem-2732.png


On bracelet
Subtotal: $332.00
40% savings: -$132.80
Total: $199.20

nato-diver-300-automatic-ss-diver-black-bezel-blue-dial-98.png

On strap
Subtotal: $249.00
40% savings: -$99.60
Total: $149.40

Specifications-

316L Stainless Steel Case

44mm width, 51mm Lug to Lug, 14mm thick

1000FT/300M Water resistant

Screw down crown and Case back

Stainless Steel -120 Click uni directional Bezel with

Brush Case with Polish sides of Case

Caliber Seiko NH 36 Automatic Movement

21,600 VPH 24 Jewels with Day/Date

Sapphire Crystal, AR coated - Scratch resistant

Superluminova Hour markers and hands

Helium Release valve 9 o’clock position

22mm Bracelet - Tension pin and collar, Push button Deployant clasp with safety , 3 Micro adjustments

https://www.deepbluewatches.com/natodiver.html

 
"Most" is usually a handy qualifier to allow wild cards such as DB. I haven't compared a DB directly to an SKX as I have neither. And I am unlikely to get either as the last dive watch I got was despite, rather than because, of it being a dive watch.

Many of the DBs occupy a price niche above the SKX - over 400 for the tritium version and something called the "Juggernaut" chiming in at one online retailer at the mark of the beast - 666.00. The "Master 2000" goes sailing past the price of a Transocean but there is that claim of a 2K rating which Stan has not made a habit of exaggerating.

The 'Tuber seemed fixated on a 200.00 price point and his point - if I'm reading his point correctly - is that the SKX doesn't justify that cost. And I acknowledge that I find his opinion to be ill-informed. It would, I would allow, be equally ill-informed on a DB using the type 4 movement. Unless, of course, he just fell head over heels in love with the DB - which he may have done at some point in the past.
 
Your prices are way off on the Deep Blue models mentioned. There is always a 40% code buying direct from Stan. All watch prices below are on bracelets and have sapphire.

juggernaut-iv-swiss-automatic-diver-blue-bracelet-7.gif

JUGGERNAUT IV SWISS AUTOMATIC DIVER BLUE BRACELET SW200/28,800 bph movement
Subtotal: $666.00
40% savings: -$266.40
Total: $399.60
JUGGERNAUT IV SWISS AUTOMATIC – DIVER
44mm width, 51mm Lug to Lug, 15mm thick
Sellita Sw-200 Swiss Made Automatic Movement
28,800 VPH , 26 Jewels, Incabloc with Date
316L Stainless Steel Case
1000FT/330M Water resistant
Screw down crown and Case back
Luminous Ceramic Bezel -120 Click unidirectional Bezel
Sapphire Crystal, AR coated - Scratch resistant
BLUE Superluminova Hour markers and hands
Unique Sunray Wave Pattern Dial, Blue Minute markers on dial and White Minute markers on chapter ring.
Helium Release valve 10 o’clock position
22mm Bracelet - Tension pin and collar, Push button Deployant clasp
3 Micro adjustments

master-2000-swiss-automatic-diver-blue-orange-full-lume-dial-37.png

MASTER 2000 SWISS AUTOMATIC DIVER BLUE-ORANGE-FULL LUME DIAL ETA 2824-2/28,800 bph movement
Subtotal: $1,166.00
40% savings: -$466.40
Total: $699.60
Bezel: Blue/White
Dial : Blue/Black
Hands: Orange
FULL LUMINOUS DIAL
46mm case, 17mm thick, 22mm Lugs , 316L Stainless Steel
Swiss Automatic Movement ETA 2824-2 Movement 24 Jewels, 28,880 VPH
Anti-Magnetic to 70,000 a/m
Sapphire Crystal 4mm thick with Inside AR coated
2000 Meters - 6600 Feet Water resistant
Ceramic Luminous Bezel (scratch Resistant ) with BGW9 BLUE Superluminova, 120 Click Uni 縫irectional
Superluminova -Luminous Hour Markers, and Hands
Helium Release Valve 乏ecessed
Screw down crown and Screw down caseback
Push Button Deploy Clasp, Full links, Half Links, Screws in Bracelet,

daynight-tritdiver-t-100-automatic-black-blue-bezel-dark-blue-dial-5.png

DAYNIGHT TRITDIVER T-100 AUTOMATIC TRITIUM TUBES ILLUMINATION: DAYNIGHT TRITDIVER T-100 NH35 moovement
Subtotal: $416.00
40% savings: -$166.40
Total: $249.60
DESCRIPTION
DAYNIGHT TRITDIVER T-100 AUTOMATIC
Black/BLUE Ceramic Bezel –DARK BLUE Dial
44mm width, 51mm Lug to Lug, 16mm thick, 316L Stainless Steel Case
500M/1650 Feet Water resistant
Screw down crown and Case back, SUNRAY DIAL
Stainless Steel -120 Click Uni directional CERAMIC Bezel, and Bezel Pip- Luminous
Bracelet – 22mm Lugs , 22/22 (22mm Clasp)
4 Micro Adjustments, Full links , Tension pins, 4.5mm thick ,
Caliber Seiko NH 35 Automatic Movement
21,600 VPH 24 Jewels with Date
Sapphire Crystal, AR coated - Scratch resistant
Tritium Tubes :12 Oclock -2 Orange Tubes , 3,6,9 – 2 Green Tritum Tubes, Other Hour Markers- 1 green Tube
Hour, Minute,Second Hand = Green Tubes
 
My DB prices were based on some online retailer named for a river in South America.

But as at least one previous poster noted above that he wasn't in the practice of paying the standard online price for an SKX either. A single online retailer with both products probably reflects something of a realistic cost comparison as both types are represented. I would have no objection to using Stan's site but one is unlikely to find an SKX at that venue - or for that matter a DB in a Seiko boutique. Seems reasonable to compare DB and SKX prices at a place where both are being sold while acknowledging that both can be found for less by those more adept than I at shopping.

If my logic is flawed regarding the comparative prices based on a common source there's one thing I'm far more sure of: I slapped a juggernaut into the cart at Stan's site and the site was more than pleased to charge me the full boat 666.00. Or, not to put too fine a point on it, you're using a little "secret sauce" to adjust the DB pricing. I can't say for certain that some similar secret sauce is available for the Seiko but at least one preceding post suggests that it is, or at least was. I'm not sure a DB price using a secret handshake is correctly compared to an SKX with no similar adjustment.

On a strictly personal peeve: I was more than a little cranked up when I found DB would collect full boat pricing if a random customer decided he wanted one. At least at an AD I can leave assured that I wasn't bent over the trestle more than the next guy to walk in.

Being a firm believer in pictures as a shortcut I offer the following:

U4CDBbA.jpg


I said I would have no objection to dealing with Stan's site. That's not actually true anymore. But I'm probably unique in disfavoring tiered pricing models based on non-obvious entry to the privileged area.
 
I slapped a juggernaut into the cart at Stan's site and the site was more than pleased to charge me the full boat 666.00. Or, not to put too fine a point on it, you're using a little "secret sauce" to adjust the DB pricing. I can't say for certain that some similar secret sauce is available for the Seiko but at least one preceding post suggests that it is, or at least was. I'm not sure a DB price using a secret handshake is correctly compared to an SKX with no similar adjustment.

On a strictly personal peeve: I was more than a little cranked up when I found DB would collect full boat pricing if a random customer decided he wanted one. At least at an AD I can leave assured that I wasn't bent over the trestle more than the next guy to walk in.

The 'Tuber seemed fixated on a 200.00 price point and his point - if I'm reading his point correctly

:banghead: Come on Hawk man, I know you're a smart guy, but not cool to throw accusations around that have no merit. A simple search and you could find that there is always a 40% code that's active for anyone outside this forum. The funny thing is you mentioned the video (around the 2:50 mark 40% off, there's always a code going on).

Type in deep blue 40% off code and see the hits you get.
Search:
Search took 0.12 seconds.​



 
The only good SKX is a modded SKX. Especially when owners upgrade the movements.


Sent from the White House on the tax payers dime.
 
@RW

I'm not making any accusation apart from tiered pricing in the case of DB. Being a devout capitalist I'm all ok with Stan making as much as he wants however he wants. But I have the option to not like his business model and not give him my business. I never did find myself a big fan of what I view as a "fleece the suckers" pricing model. It's certainly employed by some good folks but I don't like it and I have little choice in the matter - it's not like I can "choose" to like it. The best I can muster is a resignation along the lines of "that's the way it is".

My point, which also doesn't qualify as an accusation, is that I don't believe comparing the street price of one product to the "friends and family" pricing of another product But that's more a Roadwarrior / Buzzard sort of thing rather than directly addressing the 'Tuber.

In order for me to consider a DB discount a default condition it has to be readily shown on Deep Blue's site - not some Dealscove or Dealspot web site with no connection. In other words for me to respect his discounted price as a valid comparison the code has to be on his site and not contingent on outside sites or belonging to some email list. I view signing up for an email list in the same manner as coughing up for a black card VIP scheme - not quite as bad but playing in the same ballpark.

But in the interest of full disclosure I would have at least checked his forum if I were in the market for such a product. But I tend to make judgements based on how the average customer stumbling across the site is treated. And I would be the first to concede that when Wing was taking online orders at full MSRP it left a nasty taste in my mouth that I never quite got rid of - and it's not like I bought one. It's just me and my preferences.

As to the 'Tuber my main complaint wasn't centered on the pricing - it was his apparent lack of knowledge about an ISO-6425 dive watch vs. many that, well, aren't any such thing. YouTube is a constant reminder of John Lawton's quote: "The irony of the information age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion". I don't exclude myself from that category but I tend to restrict my opinions to whoever is passing by a given thread - I'd cut my wrists before putting it on a streaming service for general consumption.
 
c74b42e03e18a8981962694f509b41e6--memes.jpg
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It's not friend and family, but a general code for the public. Take your pick, BLUE or DEEP work. There are a few more that are used that are holiday related, but the two I mentioned are basic codes that are always there. I could see if Stan randomly pulled these codes from being active, but that's not the case. One or the other always will work. I know how some forums despise Deep Blue and think they know it all, but tearing them up with BS deserves no merit. IMO those other places do a great job with useful knowledge about other topics and brands, but on this one they are either clueless or simply spreading bad information. If someone has had a bad experience with a customer service issue, that's understandable, but making stuff up seems useless for their own members. If someone is interested in the brand they are only depriving them with fake news vs real codes that work and can save money. If someone fails to use a discount code it makes no sense to blame a vendor with a secret sauce theory. I guess the brick and mortar stores that accept coupons are at fault when a customer pays full price without a coupon. IMO the person failed to check for a coupon before making the purchase, so they screwed themselves. Sorry, the hypothetical "secret sauce theory" has no merit. The store selected selling both brands would be sticking it to someone IMO, not Deep Blue.
 
A good debate guys. [MENTION=122]buzzard[/MENTION] and [MENTION=435]roadwarrior[/MENTION]
 
My DB prices were based on some online retailer named for a river in South America.

Amazon is basically listing the retail. The majority of shoppers know Amazon is going to be hit or miss on prices because they can change daily. A more realistic comparison would be a place like Jomashop, which gives a good comparison if doing price shopping without fudging up the facts.

vHYZhQ.jpg


https://www.jomashop.com/deep-blue-watch-tritdiverpepsi.html

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Anyone can conjure stuff up to frame things in such a way as to make something look good or bad. I can cherry pick just as well as the next guy. Jomashop sells Deep Blue and Seiko as well. The prices are in the normal scope of things. The average person with any interest in either brand would do their homework. Using several different vendors to gauge what DEEP BLUE or any other brand is selling seems to make sense.
 
All I can say is that I always check this site for Lee's deals or some interesting species of watch which Mike has found. Not to mention all the WIT's here who share their joy of watches and where to get them. There is always the Crowd Funding thing, which I have participated in because this Forum brought to my attention.

Everybody has their own spin on buying, deals and the specs/ best value for $$ and our job is be the best informed we can be. Always taking what is said with a wee bit of ... .
So hats off to this Forum and all the Reviewers, Bloggers and You Tubers who always have a point of view.
 
LOL, wish I'd known about a "known" Deep Blue coupon over the years. Really wish I would have known about it when ordering one last week! I went through Joma, but would have saved more if going to DB and getting 40% off.

Seems this site is just all kinds of wonderful! Learn something new every day, haha, and I will certainly be more savings savvy, seeing the many deals posted here.

I get the argument that a "known" discount that is unknown to many is hard to present as a "fixed" watch price, for comparison to something else and if it is so ironclad as to always be an applicable discount, one does wonder why the price point isn't just adjusted downward?

I know there is a lot of debate on how pricing affects valuation, across a lot of brands, but, to be honest, I would have picked up far more DB's over the years, if I'd known they could be had for forty percent off -- seems more on point with what you get, at the price, or even more of a steal in some cases.

I personally love DB and it was my first intro to a "micro" brand watch (they were a much smaller outfit when I first came across them). Great specs, in general, and kind of my first window into realizing what could be bought outside of "big name" brands, for far less money.

In terms of the Tuber's view, presented, I'm not entirely sure of his point? Value can be deceiving? So...don't worry about specs that you want?? Not sure what the final verdict or recommendation was. “Have fun with it,” I guess, was the point, and don’t be concerned with what you buy, but, I can’t really agree with that, given that, the more I’ve learned, the more I’ve discovered how much you CAN buy, if you know what to look for, especially if embracing the gray market (which is perhaps more reflective of “true” value points, much like brands with “established” discount pricing) and just being educated on "good" watch specs.

The side being missed by the Tuber, in my view, is what one person values, over another, which can reach far beyond specs.

Yes, value may not be the driving point in popular models, but this is ignoring what value means to various buyers. I have paid far more for watches with less “hard specs” of note, versus what I could get elsewhere, but, over time, my understanding of paying less, to get more, changed as my understanding changed of what “more” meant to me.

My Breitling, to some, is a boring, lackluster, oversized three hander, 42h PR auto, a mere 200m WR, priced outrageously compared to other options, but it had excellent value for me, in what it was. Same with my Seiko SBDC061, which I think is just a phenomenal watch, unremarkable specs aside, being from Seiko and being the re-issue update that it is.

In terms of a 600m auto diver chronograph with excellent lume, sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel, instant micro adjustments on the clasp, etc., I went with a Christopher Ward design and paid a fraction of any similarly spec’d diver from “known” brands. Then again, I have a Ward, haha, not an Omega, Rolex, or Oris. But my view of value, at the time, was shaped by what I wanted, in terms of specs, over brand recognition, not to mention Chris Ward is no slouch in the watch world. It felt "worth it" then, just as much as other, later buys where specs did not necessarily outweigh the price point.

So, what’s “valuable” can change for each buyer, and over time and my concept of an "acceptable" price point has evolved.

I got into this totally focused on affordables, from a value for cost perspective -- how much watch can I get for how much. It was Invicta that started me off, as I've mentioned, and brand issues aside, their company motto to bring quality and affordability together shaped my early buying and stuck with me, even when I moved beyond Invicta, and adjusted my cost for value upward.

This led me to excellent brands like Certina, Victorinox, Raymond Weil, Edox, Chris Ward, and others, including various micros, where I was getting outstanding specs for far less than I'd ever pay through the "higher end" brands. Many of my watches were on "best" lists for value, and I was routinely attracted to brands that "punch above their weight" as the saying goes.

I did learn I had to spend more than Invicta pricing, but, to me, that value was worth it, and the more I learned what specs were valued or "worth" having in a watch, the more I found brands that offered them for acceptable pricing, at least compared to much more highly priced options. But, that concept evolved, and I came to appreciate why people pay more, even if they possibly get "less" in terms of mere specifications.

So, yes, SKX or Oris 65 might not be that great for some, of course, but they are obviously very great for others, who value what they are, for what they are, and even for what they are not.

And, in looking at what is considered “High Horology” at the most elite level, in the world’s most revered brands, according to the Swiss, they do factor in such “intangibles” as brand history, contribution to horology, and other “non-spec directed” elements, so I think there is precedent to say that “value” goes beyond specs, is my point.

I just don’t think one has to give up much, to get a great watch, in today’s market, almost no matter what your desired price point may be. In terms of affordables and hunting bargains, yes, some great buys out there, but I’ve learned the pricier pieces also have their attractions, just as much as budget stuff, and fun can be had all around. That’s my thoughts about it.

Great discussion here.
 
I get the argument that a "known" discount that is unknown to many is hard to present as a "fixed" watch price, for comparison to something else and if it is so ironclad as to always be an applicable discount, one does wonder why the price point isn't just adjusted downward?

That's a question that can be applied with a bunch of brands sold on the internet, TV or elsewhere. They may not have a certain code in place all the time, but looking at the usual discounts when having "sales" the same question could be asked.

The code was put in place when Deep Blue finally severed ties with Evine. That partnership had grown stagnant for some time. Sure they could build the code into the price by lowering all of the regular prices. IMO doing that wouldn't be good for a company that has established using such a code. Some customers would want a discount on top of the discount. A company like Zelos for instance. They have built their business model with attractive launch pricing from the very start and have fined tuned the process. Elshan has only had one holiday sale because there usually isn't a need for sales because most sell out.

Below is a statement from Stan.

Hey guys - We are still working with evine . The low down is -we were not given any proper time slots- as the hours are getting harder to give to watch brands -as management is focusing on other categories.

That being said -we did not care for early morning or late night shows -which are a Colossal Waste of time. So we are hoping that in 2017 We get Fair air time - Prime spots - not 3 am . but these are hard to get .

we Should be on Evine in the next few months but I think probably a bigger web presence than shows. Shows are very hard to come by.

So much has changed since we started out with evine in 2010 . however we still want to be on Air - but there are just now less "watch " Shows

The good old days are just that - Jim , Larry, Mike , etc !! long gone but not forgotten

All is good - But at the end of the Day the Price is what counts as we are hoping to abide by VALUE being the most important factor .
 
That's a question that can be applied with a bunch of brands sold on the internet, TV or elsewhere. They may not have a certain code in place all the time, but looking at the usual discounts when having "sales" the same question could be asked.

The code was put in place when Deep Blue finally severed ties with Evine. That partnership had grown stagnant for some time. Sure they could build the code into the price by lowering all of the regular prices. IMO doing that wouldn't be good for a company that has established using such a code. Some customers would want a discount on top of the discount. A company like Zelos for instance. They have built their business model with attractive launch pricing from the very start and have fined tuned the process. Elshan has only had one holiday sale because there usually isn't a need for sales because most sell out.

Below is a statement from Stan.

Yup, I know Chris Ward has sure gotten plenty of criticism because of pricing, and, obviously Invicta is considered the worst pricing offender on earth by some, ahaha, and gray market in general also challenges price points, even from the "top" brands that dump inventory that direction.

I guess, at day's end, it pays to do research on what is the best price out there, and I haven't felt that it devalues a watch or a brand, frankly, that discounts are applied, but of course I can respect a brand's pricing model to indicate quality and competitive features offered.

If anything, discounting has driven me more toward the brands that provide the most bang for the buck, since paying less always reduces that feeling of "what exactly am I paying for here" which, as I say, has changed for me with ongoing buying experience.

I'm much more willing to shell out more, these many years later, than when I started out. I once was of the thinking that "higher priced stuff is overpriced' but I get it now, the "value" or "worth" factor that goes beyond specs, into brand heritage, craftsmanship, and what may not be readily seen without a loupe, or diving into a movement, etc.

I mean, haha, does it make a difference that Breitling swaps out the filtered air every six hours, in the temperature and humidity controlled assembly process? Maybe not, but knowing the commitment, standards of quality and expertise behind what sits on my wrist has come to have value to me, in certain instances that, as I say, goes beyond what specs I could get for less.

Hasn't chased me away from the bargain table, but has expanded my interests, for sure.

Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't know DB was associated ever with Evine. I continue learning here from the deep pool of knowledge.
 
Ya gotta wonder how many times the "secret" coupon has cost DB a sale. If somebody is on their site and really wants a certain model but they feel the price is just a little too much, so they pass and move on. Whereas if they knew about the code and applied it, the price would be more than acceptable. Interesting different view.

As far as DB vs Seiko, I've had a bunch of both. I'll take my Seikos any day, Hardlex and all.(No scratches or marks on any of my Hardlex crystals so that isn't a selling point to me) I know RW likes to bring up alignment issues with Seiko and I'm not giving them a pass on this but they make tons more watches than DB. As we all know, people will be more inclined to complain about something than to say everything is fine. So for every misalignment complaint, how many are not misaligned?

From my own personal experience, the bezel on my DB Nato Diver was fairly loose. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary to glance down and see it was bumped off a tick. This has never happened on ANY of my Seikos and some of those are cheaper than the "discounted" Nato diver. Regardless, I'm not going to go online and complain to the masses of my "crappy, loose" DB bezel. I bought a DB with tritium flat tubes. It was delivered with one dead tube. I had to go through the whole return, wait for them to get it, send me a new one, all because they didn't take 10 seconds to make sure the tubes were good. And on top of all of this, communication was absolutely terrible with getting tracking numbers. I guess I expected a little better given the size of their operation.

I usually don't get involved in comparing one company over another as everyone has their own tastes and preferences. RW likes to compare DB to Seiko so I just wanted to share my personal experience. DB isn't perfect either.
 
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