Ordered early Chrismas present from Aliexpress sale

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Congrats. You have to be careful on the lead in prices. Many aren't always the best when factoring in S&H. So little difference might as well order from stateside. You also have to make sure to select the correct voltage .... US(110v-220V) or EU (220v-240v).

Aliexpress
135.59 ... buy from AE, but ships from USA

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001259606484.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.321f3c00qGHCpE&mp=1
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Alibaba

1 Pieces
$115.00
Ship to United States by Express UPS Sav…
$29.80
Lead Time 7 days
Shipping time 6-10 days
Total
$144.80

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...2700.pc_countrysearch.main07.3.31e0750a21fVtP

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Why You Should Own A Timegrapher (and how to use it)​

JANUARY 07, 2015

Every time I bring a new watch to my watchmaker, he immediately puts it on a stand and shows me as a little blue screen drawing lines, mumbles something, and then gives me an idea of the movement's health. A timing machine, or timegrapher, lets him get a quick snapshot of how a watch is running.

Being someone who likes to really set up shop in my hobbies, and having already started the TZ Watchmaking course, I thought a Timegrapher would be a great addition to my watchmaking desk and a useful tool to determine how well my watches are running. Although not the heavy duty analytics tools real watch repair shops use, for under $200 it is a very worthwhile tool to have around, and its incredibly quick and easy to use. You don't even have to take the back off the watch.

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There are a few major benefits to having a Timegrapher. If you like to buy pre-owned, especially vintage watches, its a fast way to get a snapshot of the movement you are dealing with so you know if you need to bring it in for service right away (or return it). If you notice one of your watches struggling or having problems, you can generate some decent ideas as to what is wrong in a few minutes so you can decide where to take it.

Conversely when selling a watch, including the Beats Per Hour (BPH) statistics on your 'For Sale' post shows you to be a more knowledgeable seller who understands what serious buyers want to know. Every time I've asked an eBay seller about the timing of the movement, and they say "runs great, probably under a few minutes a day", its a huge red flag that they don't have knowledge about what they are selling, undermining their credibility and in turn, my interest in buying from them.

Beats per Hour (BPH) or Vibrations per Hour (VPH)

The top-line statistic when describing a mechanical watch movement is the bph/vph. In other words, the number of times the balance wheel will swing half a rotation over the course of sixty minutes. Watches with a high bph, like the Zenith El Premiero at 36,000 bph, tend to be more accurate, with a smoother movement of the second hand, but potentially require more service due to the higher amount of wear it generates. Watches with a lower BPH, like Rolex 1675 at 19,800 bph, have a jumpier seconds hand, slightly less accuracy, but anecdotally require less maintenance over time.

Note: Make sure your watch is mostly wound before testing.

Standard bph ratings

  • 14,400 bph = 4 beats per second
  • 18,000 bph = 5 beats per second
  • 21,600 bph = 6 beats per second
  • 28,800 bph = 8 beats per second
  • 36,600 bph = 10 beats per second
The popular middle ground these days is 28,800 bph: a good mix of accuracy and durability, and the frequency chosen for the Valjoux 7750, ETA 2824-2 and Unitas 6497, three of the most produced watch movements on the planet, used by nearly every watch company that isn't a complete in-house manufacture. Brands including IWC, Bell & Ross, Breitling, Sinn, Hublot and Panerai use these movements as a base upon which to tweak and embellish. They are cheap, reliable, incredibly easy to service (because any watchmaker will know how) and a good base from which to focus on case design and finishing, while keeping prices reasonable.

A Hublot modified Valjoux 7750. You can buy your own for $450, or buy theirs for $15,000.

A Hublot modified Valjoux 7750. You can buy your own for $450, or buy theirs for $15,000.


A Hublot modified Valjoux 7750. You can buy your own for $450, or buy theirs for $15,000. A Hublot modified Valjoux 7750. You can buy your own for $450, or buy theirs for $15,000.

While good to know the different bph ratings, the Timegrapher I bought is pretty spot on at auto-detecting the bph of any watch you put on it. You can program it yourself in the menu, but there isn't much of a reason to unless you have a highly custom movement or it isn't detecting correctly.

Lift Angle

The other thing you'll want to know about your movement is the lift angle. This is the angle the balance passes through while interacting with the pallet fork. The reason you need to input this into the Timegrapher is so that you can calculate the amplitude, which I'll touch on soon. A handy site for finding out the lift angle of your movement can be found here.

Most modern watches have a lift angle of 52 degrees. Generally lift angles range from 44 to 58 degrees. Some other settings are present, for instance the new Omega Co-Axial movement angle is 30 degrees.

Amplitude
The measure of the amount of rotation in the swing of the balance wheel, in either direction.
Amplitude is higher when a watch is lying flat and usually falls when the watch is in a vertical position, due to increased friction. Amplitude can also fall as the watch winds down and the mainspring delivers less power.
Amplitude is a good indicator of the movements health and if is too high or too low, or that changes too much in different positions, can indicate a problem with the movement.

Understanding the results

So you've got your timegrapher, you've input the BPH, Amplitude and Lift Angle, and now you want to know what to look for. I'll preface this strongly by saying that a) I am in no way a trained watchmaker and b) the timegrapher only looks at a quick snapshot of the watch, it doesn't give the whole picture. For instance, how it runs when the power reserve is low.

1. Rate - How fast/slow the watch runs in seconds per day.

This is the most basic statistic and will at least let you know how accurate your watch is. If your watch is COSC certified, in order to be in good health it needs to be running between -4 and +6 seconds per day. Otherwise it will depend somewhat on the watch, but with a few exceptions you should consider the following to be a good range of your movement's health. If it is wildly out of these ranges, you should bring it to a watchmaker to get it checked out.

  • Excellent - +/- 7 s/d
  • Acceptable - +/- 20 s/d
2. Amplitude - the amount of rotation in the swing of the balance wheel

  • great : 270-310
  • acceptable : 250-270

3. Beat Error - how equal each swing of the balance wheel oscillation is.

  • Excellent : 0.0 - 0.5 milliseconds
  • Acceptable : 0.6 - 1 milliseconds
For a more in depth course on the measurement of mechanical watch movements, Witschi has put online a very thorough and easy to understand lesson document. Check it out here: Test and Measurement Technology for Mechnical Watches.

Bonus: If you want a video to show you how to use a timegrapher, I really like this guy:

https://www.bobswatches.com/watch-resources/how-to-use-a-timegrapher
 
You have to be careful on the lead in prices. Many aren't always the best when factoring in S&H. So little difference might as well order from stateside. You also have to make sure to select the correct voltage .... US(110v-220V) or EU (220v-240v).
You are correct about all that. In the past I found the EU plug model was cheaper than the US so I bought a cheap adapter plug but then never ordered the Timegrapher. This time I found a good deal, but you are right one must be very careful when searching through the many stores and coupons Ali has.

I settled on this deal

Screenshot_2020-10-12 My AliExpress Manage Orders.jpg

The store has 5 star feedback as well.
 
Sometimes it can be a two edge sword. That is to say you may find problems with a watch that you wouldn't know about otherwise. Ignorance can be bliss but with the timegrapher you may find a watch that you thought was running fine have issues that then bother you.

good observation USC... like 2Many with his big green clam in a yellow box... " once he seen the scratch he could not uNSEE "

wits seem wired this way... glad u are still in the nBZ...accoutrements, boxes, testers, winders do NOT COUNT as " buying another watch "

I find your observations pithy and a window to both your hobby & mine... cool machine USC...but like u say u have robbed yourself willingly of blissful ignorance...LOL
 
Sometimes it can be a two edge sword. That is to say you may find problems with a watch that you wouldn't know about otherwise. Ignorance can be bliss but with the timegrapher you may find a watch that you thought was running fine have issues that then bother you.
I'm okay with that. Just me, but I wouldn't waste my money for just having one watch. For the amount that I own I think it would add another aspect to my collecting.
 
Just me, but I wouldn't waste my money for just having one watch.
I would say with only one watch it is more important to know the health of that watch but since I now have two it is double the fun. Also I think it would help with selling a watch when you can provide a clear objective report of how the watch you are selling is operating to the potential buyer.
 
Sometimes it can be a two edge sword. That is to say you may find problems with a watch that you wouldn't know about otherwise. Ignorance can be bliss but with the timegrapher you may find a watch that you thought was running fine have issues that then bother you.

If I sold watches this would be a definite necessity. I would at the very minimum, need to know for the buyers sake. I couldn't in clear conscience sell a watch without knowing if there is an issue or potential problem with a watch. I have enough watches to toy around with that if there was a ticker condition. I could keep and eye out on the ones who are potential candidates for a heart transplant.
 
I couldn't in clear conscience sell a watch without knowing if there is an issue or potential problem with a watch.
Good for you and I agree. However I did sell a Hamilton Khaki field with a broken mainspring with full disclosure of the problem and was surprised how much it sold for as it was.
 
from forum surfing I am more used to 200 watch collection than 2

-but after the shock has worn off...these both seem like good choices and the collection appears complete ...1 & done a couple still less than a few

the japanese olympic commemorative has aged well now that u have educated me... asians can be fanatic collectors... i'd keep it " mummy wrapped NWT " but that's just me child of a child of the gr8 depression... as a child my dad waited by the train tracks for the engineer to throw lumps of coal to heat his house
 
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A good tool for those who wish to tinker. Have fun when it arrives.

I once thought about getting one but decided against it . For one , all of my higher end watches are easily within a few seconds per day , some are COSC. That accuracy is easily good enough considering I only wear the same watch for a few days at most. If one of the higher end watches starts behaving erratically , I will take it to a pro for service.

I also feel the same about my fashion automatics. Plus or minus 20 seconds per day is good enough accuracy for a guy who will only wear that watch for a few days at most and I don't think I have a watch that is off by more than 10 SPD. It really doesn't matter that after 3 days if the watch is a minute fast or slow. If the fashion watch behaves erratically , I will decide to fix it myself , take it to a pro , or just trash it for parts.

Considering that I only wear my watches for a few days at most in a row , and my collection is around 40 automatics , there may not be enough time left in my lifetime to even stress a movement where it would have run long enough to even need recommended service. JMHO
 
A good tool for those who wish to tinker. Have fun when it arrives.
I had thought about adjusting the Triton which is running about -10 spd very good enough but I prefer they run slightly fast like the sarx069 at +6 spd. Also I can optimize for the right wrist positions I wear them on..... that is crown up rather than crown down as would be on the left wrist. Necessary? absolutely not....... OCD yes probably, but fun with the watch hobby - continually.
 
I had thought about adjusting the Triton which is running about -10 spd very good enough but I prefer they run slightly fast like the sarx069 at +6 spd. Also I can optimize for the right wrist positions I wear them on..... that is crown up rather than crown down as would be on the left wrist. Necessary? absolutely not....... OCD yes probably, but fun with the watch hobby - continually.
"OCD " is only an evolutionary mal adaptation when not used for a constructive purpose; applied in your manner or constructive endeavors it is the key to success...a scientific mind is a terrible thing to waste....

nice way to play with the hobby quite useful, relevant, instructive precise
 
One of my 'collateral' hobbies is the restoration and collection of old tube radios, and I'm known for being rather hard on my test equipment, some of which is as old as / older than many of the radios in my study. So when I saw this cool piece of Horological TE, I started wondering how many uses I would get out of it before it would 'go on the fritz' or 'zott-out'... Either way, it's cool that you've returned to automatics (and, I presume, some mechanicals, too?) and are wanting to do it right, so congrats on this high-tech way to enjoy a classic pastime! :wink:
 
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